THE COMPLETE SID AND NANCY INTERVIEW
DOA Chapter 40: January 1979
Narrator: In our last episode Tom Forcade, PUNK Magazine’s financial angel, blew his brains out, marking the end of the 1970s counterculture. The future of PUNK Magazine looked bleak.
Shortly after Tom Forcade’s tragic suicide, things changed. High Times magazine had a total change in attitude towards Forcade’s pet projects like PUNK Magazine and the Sex Pistols documentary. I think certain people who worked there came to the realization that many of their actions against PUNK Magazine and the Sex Pistols documentary contributed to his suicide. You know: Maybe they figured out that it wasn’t PUNK Magazine nor Tom Forcade’s fanatical desire to produce the Sex Pistols film that killed him: In fact, all of the opposition he was facing from friends and foes depressed him. I am convinced that many people had regrets that they had been fighting against him about many things, and how Tom wanted to run his company. Anyway, cooler heads prevailed.
One problem that has been pointed out to me many times is that when you worked with Tom Forcade, he made you feel that you were an important part of what he was doing. His employees never felt that they worked for him, they worked with him. They were empowered. They were a part of the decision-making process, and their work was appreciated. This is the attitude everyone wants to feel (and should feel) when you work for a company. Unfortunately, this can lead some people to think they know better than the boss, and that he shouldn’t just listen to their ideas or concerns, they must obey!
Most people at the magazine thought Tom Forcade’s plans to get into filmmaking, punk rock and other media were insane, and fought against his leadership. Tom was forward-thinking, while most of the High Times people just wanted to keep doing what they were doing. For instance, it echoes how members of The Beach Boys fought against Brian Wilson’s leadership when he wanted to make radical changes to the group’s sound. They thought he was crazy! “Het, we’re selling records! Let’s not change our formula!”
I can only imagine what the man could have accomplished once we entered the digital age, especially how a genius like Forcade would have worked the World Wide Web and the internet.
Back to early 1979: Our new Publisher, John Spacely, was able to set up a deal with our former printer so that we could bring out the magazine again. (A novelty, since we had serious problems just paying the rent, much less large print bills). Spacely met with the President of the company, Eastern Press, that had printed issues #12 and #14: He took a train to New Haven, Connecticut, picked up a six-pack of Colt .45 tall boys, had a few brewskis during their sit-down, and somehow came away with an agreement to publish six issues on a bimonthly schedule. As a result of Spacely’s efforts, and the people running High Times agreeing to honor our distribution agreement. PUNK Magazine lived on.
Shortly after we started to put together a new issue Lech Kowalski, the director of the untitled Sex Pistols film documentary that Tom Forcade had been backing, stopped by the office to see if we would run some excerpts from an interview they did with Sid Vicious and Nancy Spungen. Great! Free content! He said the film was going to be called D.O.A. (I think it was mean to be a reference to the fact that the Sex Pistols were on a self-destructive path before they even travelled to America for that 1978 tour: The band was dead on arrival.)
A few months ago, I ran across a large envelope that Maureen McFadden (Tom Forcade’s personal Assistant/Secretary), mailed to me many years ago: It contained a printout of the entire Sid & Nancy interview that was filmed. It’s 35 pages long! So I’m posting the first half here, and will publish the rest of the transcript in next week’s newsletter.
The transcript is missing several elements: a proper name (or curse word) here and there were deleted, and a lot of what said is mumbled and can’t be understood (as Nancy admits throughout), but there’s some interesting information about their relationship, the dynamic between band members, even the financial situation between Malcolm and the band members.
Sadly, the film segments are long gone. The film director couldn’t afford the storage fees, since the film made no money. I was given the privilege to watch the entire filmed interview once. I have to admit that I fell asleep: It was that boring. Long segments consisted of the two of them nodding out. But the transcript is interesting and reveals more of what Sid and Nancy’s relationship. So here we go, I hope you all enjoy this blast from the past:
TRIGGER WARNING: Racist, obscene, nasty and controversial language is contained! Hey, it’s the most fucked-up interview of all time. (This is punk rock! Sid wears a swastika t-shirt throughout. If this kind of thing offends you? Please unsubscribe.)
———
THE ENTIRE SID AND NANCY INTERVIEW:
PART ONE
FROM
DOA: A RITE OF PASSAGE
Interviewed by Chris Salewicz
NANCY: Sid, wake up and answer him!
SID: I’m answering!
NANCY: He asked you a question. It’s no time to go to sleep.
D.O.A. FILM TRANSCRIPT
SID VICIOUS/NANCY SPUNGEN INTERVIEW
NANCY: He’s just no good any more. He’s just a piece of shit.
(To Sid) Oh great.
(looking at Sid’s tee shirt) Oh, you're a disgusting pig.
He’s just no good. He does a “nigger’s top scab dance” on stage. Bangs the microphone up and down once or twice and that’s it. He doesn’t put anything into it, he’s paranoid as Hell. He just ruined it. He’s no good anymore, there’s no sense in carrying on if he’s like that.
SID: (Grunt) No…
NANCY: Yeah… I mean, he’s like an embarrassment and Malcolm felt the same way. He’s just a… He just ruined a good band.
INTERVIEWER: What about Sid, I heard you and Malcolm went out to the airport together, yeah? And on the way out (unintelligible) you said…
NANCY: Malcolm’s on Sid’s side.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, I know.
SID: Yeah… Yeah, I did.
INTERVIEWER: And you decided on the road you didn’t want to go to Rio, yeah?
NANCY: That’s when I decided to call it a day, and then they turned back.
INTERVIEWER: (To Sid) Why did you finally decide that?
NANCY: Sid, wake up and answer him!
SID: I’m answering!
NANCY: He asked you a question… It’s no time to go to sleep!
SID: (Grunt) What was the question again? I’m really tired.
INTERVIEWER: It’s all right, hang on, I’m just setting a match.
NANCY: Great.
SID: Because…
INTERVIEWER: Sorry?
SID: You know the… I said to you this American tour didn’t work out, (grunt) right.
NANCY: You gotta talk well, Sid, you sound like… you’re gonna die.
SID: (Firmly) I decided that…
NANCY: He told me before he left that if this American tour… If John didn’t straighten up that he was gonna quit. Now go on.
SID: So right. (Unintelligible) I walked in somebody else’s room.
NANCY: Talk intelligibly. Pleeease.
SID: (Touching his throat)
NANCY: So take some of that cough syrup so you can talk. You can’t. You can’t understand a word you’re saying. So get some of that… that cold syrup. (He picks it up)
He’s got a really bad sore throat, he’s been sick, but I wish he’d fucking wake up because I, he really wanted to give you this interview.
SID: I’ll wake up now!
NANCY: Okay, wake up, wake up!
(Sid smiles and gets up)
SID: Lots of smoked some drugs he drinks because (unintelligible)
NANCY: Sid, what you’re saying is totally unintelligible and he can’t understand you, and we called him so that means it’s a waste of his time, so let’s give him a good interview, right?
SID: Well, do you know what I mean.
NANCY: Do I know what you mean? About why you called it a day? Yeah, I know what you mean.
SID: You tell him.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, you tell me.
NANCY: Because John was just like, I mean he’s, he’s just totally deteriorated. He thought gangsters were following him around, he was totally paranoid. He was like… He was no good on stage anymore, I mean, everybody was for Sid, I mean Sid was like… I don’t know if you saw any of the gigs but Sid was shining out and John was being like nothing, you know he wasn’t giving it anymore, he just wasn’t, and he wasn’t shaping up, he was looking awful the way he was dressing, the way he looked, he looked horrible. He wouldn’t listen to anybody and my… you know, I mean, Sid tried to talk to him time and time again and you know after a while you just give up, don’t you.
INTERVIEWER: Sure, where was he going, what was John doing wrong, where did he go, what do you think?
NANCY: He just, he just wasn’t putting anything into it anymore. He jut wasn’t putting a damned thing into it any more.
SOUND CUT
NANCY: No they won’t
SID: Why?
NANCY: The customs officials.
INTERVIEWER: (To Sid) So, a thought… Are you gonna play with him?
NANCY: (whisper) Sid, wake up!
SID: Who?
INTERVIEWER: Jerry Nolan and Johnny Thunders?
SID: No… the… Bay String Quartet (?)
NANCY: Wake up. You gotta talk so it’s intelligible.
SID: I know, I’m trying my best, OK?
NANCY: I know, well, try not
SID: Fuck you.
NANCY: We’ll go to sleep later on. What’re you looking for?
SID: The lid. Hmm, yes I might… The only two people I can think of I would like to play with…
NANCY: Sid?
SID: Yeah.
NANCY: Oh my God! What are you doing Sid? (Whispering)
INTERVIEWER: So, they’re still playing with The Heartbreakers, aren’t they?
SID: (grunt)
NANCY: (interrupting) No, (Jerry, Billy and Butch) went back to N.Y. months ago.
INTERVIEWER: Yes (unintelligible) backed up/Is that where he backed up?
NANCY: I think so, I think so. Yeah I think so.
INTERVIEWER: ?
NANCY: Sid, he’s not interviewing me, please try and wake up.
SID: (Nods) Okay.
NANCY: Do you want me to make you a cup of coffee?
SID: (whisper) Yes, could you?
NANCY: Yes, I’ll make you a cup of coffee. (Gets up) Would you try and fucking wake up, please…
SID: Yes. I’ll do it.
NANCY: Because we, we gave him an interview
SID: (Shouting) Okay, I’ll do it!
NANCY: … Good interview, right? Like, you’re not talking intelligibly, you’re falling asleep on your sunglasses. Wake the fuck up! You can tell him better than me, it’s not my interview, I ain’t in no fucking group! I know! But you can tell me better than I can.
SID: (Hiccups)
SOUND CUT
SHOT WITH FEET UP (NO SOUND)
SID: … Fifteen… He wouldn’t take less than that.
INTERVIEWER: Well then (unintelligible) Who’d heard them before. Were they only groups
(Sid falls asleep)
SOUND CUT
SID: What are you doing?
NANCY: Are you woken up a little bit now? You were fine before because he did not bring all this shit over here for nothing. You know? So will you wake up and talk… intelligibly?
SID: I’m talking… Any way I want to.
NANCY: Well, talk so you can understand for fuck’s sake.
SID & NANCY: (unintelligible noises) NO IMAGE
SID: What are you doing?
NANCY: Are you woken up a little bit now? You were fine before because he did not bring all this shit over here for nothing, you know? So will you wake up and talk… intelligibly?
SID: I’ll talking… any way I want to.
NANCY: Well, talk so you can be understood for fuck’s sake.
SID & NANCY: (Unintelligible noises) NO IMAGE
INTERVIEWER: Listen, when did you talk to Nick (?).
You were just saying that like on the plane that time you know—you were saying that, that, that everyone was against you, are they…
Malcolm was on your side. Did that, did that change at all the relationship. Do you still think they’re against you in the end?
SID: No, that thing is completely finished with Malcolm. As far as I can ascertain, it’s difficult to figure.
NANCY: Aooo Aoooow! (Carrying coffee) It’s hot, it’s real hot.
SID: As far as I can ascertain, he’s not use Jonesy, he’s been helping me a little bit.
NANCY: Who’s that?
SID: (Grunt) Malcolm
NANCY: Ahh…
INTERVIEWER: Have you talked to him since you’ve come back?
SID: (whispers, unintelligible)
NANCY: Talk louder!
SID: I’m so…
INTERVIEWER: What do you think was wrong with it apart from Johnny, if you think it was just John?
SID: Mainly…… John, John was, but we were so untogether, we hadn’t played for so long that they lost all the enthusiasm and I lost mine for them so we haven’t written any songs since then and… Can I have (some spray?)
NANCY: (Drops telephone, picks up a spray thing and puts it to his mouth) Will you wake up please. (sprays him) Just wake up.
SID: Yeah, okay, I’ll wake up. What’s the next question?
INTERVIEWER: No, I was just, I…
SID: Oh, are we still discussing that one?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, we really because I don’t think….
SID: Well, I’ll give you, I’ll tell you exactly what happened where… Malcolm tried to… I was staying there with some friends, kids that I met in San Francisco right? And then I was in houses in bed, so it wasn’t ready for the fun.
NANCY: Wake up
SID: I know and we discussed J.R. (unintelligible)
NANCY: Can’t hear you Sid!
SID: Malcolm was into… Jones was becoming…
NANCY: (Puts microphone nearer) You can’t hear what you’re saying.
SID: Did you hear that?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
NANCY: He’s just becoming like Rod Stewart
SID: Who wants to be Rod Stewart.
NANCY: Yeah, and it’s ridiculous.
SID: This time, I’ll quit. (unintelligible) like Rod Stewart.
NANCY: No, he was, it was disgusting. He wasn’t putting anything into (blank) and he was walking around with an entire entourage. Yeah, like a big fucking pop star. You know how it was getting to the point with them that we’re gonna have to be like riding around in limousines and, you know… Maybe it’s better that it ended there.
INTERVIEWER: I mean, wasn’t any… I always thought it was inevitable that because of what the Pistols had stood for in the first place: Saying they didn’t want the limousines, and didn’t want wealth.
NANCY: Sid didn’t get star struck, but John did! Only badly, so that’s one of the reasons why Sid wanted to leave because it was, it was a hypocritical thing.
NO IMAGE
NANCY: (Coughs) Listen to his question.
SID: I’m sorry (cough), been ill.
INTERVIEWER: I know, it’s all right.
SID: I’ve got a sore throat and things.
NANCY: Just try and talk a little but more clearly.
INTERVIEWER: So listen, I mean, like I can come back tomorrow, if it’s easier you know.
NANCY: No, he may as well do it while you’re here.
INTERVIEWER: I understand, you know.
NANCY: He’s been very ill, you know, it’s hard for him to talk. I’m trying to get him to wake up and talk to you.
INTERVIEWER: That’s all right.
NANCY: I wish you would wake up, wake up. (whisper)
SID: (unintelligible) … tomorrow.
NANCY: It will get better.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, I know.
NANCY: But like, he asked you a question, you can answer it. Do you wanna roll another joint?
SID: You want any?
NANCY: There you go. (Throws cigarette) Oh! I’m sorry!
SID: I would like to be able to drink, actually.
NANCY: What is…
INTERVIEWER: Jerry.
NANCY: That Jerry, yeah. It’s a fucking drag. He’s… that… there’s no. probabilities of him even being let back into the country is, I mean like, the earliest he’d be let back in would be in about a year, two years.
(Sid jumps up)
I didn’t hit you with a cigarette!
INTERVIEWER: He burnt ? Yourself.
SOUND OUT
NANCY: Wake up! My God.
INTERVIEWER: Did you say… Why are they kicking him out, I mean the Heartbreakers.
NANCY: Jerry?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah
NANCY: No, they didn’t kick him out, he left, because, like the, the mix on… I mean you know what the mix of the album is.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
NANCY: He went in there and waited for three days and three nights to remix that and carve out with a brilliant production, a brilliant mix, and they wouldn’t take, they wouldn’t take it so we just said all right, that’s enough too, we’re leaving. Really he’’s the best drummer in the world, he’s amazing. Wake up.
SID: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: It’s been often expected that you’re about to drop dead, right, you know? You know about people saying that about you, obviously you do.
SID: (grunt)
NANCY: He ain’t gonna drop dead, take it from me.
INTERVIEWER: No.
NANCY: He’s just fucked up. I mean, he’s been sick for three months, that he’s been on the road the whole time.
INTERVIEWER: Why was he on the road then?
NANCY: ‘Cause they thought, Malcolm thought that the best way to make Sid better and to make the band better was to keep them on the road until they dropped. That was his idea of, of bettering the band.
INTERVIEWER: He had hepatitis didn’t he, as well?
NANCY: Yeah, earlier, a year ago, October.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, did he get over that?
NANCY: He got over it, but he isn’t, he’s not very healthy.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
NANCY: And he had to be rushed to the hospital in New York because he had a lung infection, he passed out, he collapsed from exhaustion. I mean, you know, because he works hard, he works fucking hard. And like, people (whispering) DON’T DROP THAT CIGARETTE. You know, and nobody else was working. People think it’s the other way around, but it’s not. Is not, at all.
INTERVIEWER: What kind of, how was Sid working then. I mean really, tell me what was going on.
NANCY: (interrupts) Sid! What are you do!! (Picks up cigarette from bed)
SID: Put the ashtray in the middle.
NANCY: Yeah, you put the cigarette on the bed. What do you say?
SID: I put it in the ashtray.
INTERVIEWER: Oh. No, I mean, tell me how, I mean I believe you just tell me how he was working the others around.
NANCY: He was going to rehearsal seven days a week and nobody else was turning up.
INTERVIEWER: When was that?
NANCY: Three, four months ago.
INTERVIEWER: What, no one else was turning up at all?
NANCY: No, no one, no one else was there because if Steve doesn’t turn up and Paul… A couple of times Paul was there, you know, but like, that’s it. And John very rare, we, you’re even snoring now, wake up.
SID: (Some sounds) Look, I was, a-a-awake up, boogie tune.
INTERVIEWER: What was that?
NANCY: We’re not talking about Boogie, pull yourself to—
SOUND OUT
SID: (unintelligible) just like me, because him.
NANCY: Steve and Paul wanted an easy way out. That’s what you were gonna say, hey?
SID: Really looks that way. That’s not the point.
NANCY: Steve and Paul wanted an easy way out. They can’t confront John. I’m kind of… If you don’t mind, I’m kind of… I know what Sid is saying.
INTERVIEWER: I know, I know, right.
NANCY: So I’ll tell you, okay, if you don’t mind that. What he is saying is that like John and Steve… John and Paul wouldn’t, I mean, Steve and Paul would never confront John, even and like they wanted an easy way out. Do you need a match?
SID: So that they, it was all on me so that I left the fucking group.
NANCY: And they would never know.
SID: (unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: So they wanted to go all the time, yeah.
NANCY: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: They just wanted someone to do it.
NANCY: Right, they wanted someone to do it. You know he needs some rest. We’ve been, I’ve been making him rest since he’s been back feeding him good food. He needs a rest.
INTERVIEWER: He needs a massive rest, you know, he needs something like a month off.
NANCY: Yeah, right, and then we’re planning to go to New York.
INTERVIEWER: In the sun or something, just away from everything. What was this tax thing, you got hit, you got hit with tax, what was that?
NANCY: (To Sid) Oh, when did you get hit, what were you talking about with that tax… Please don’t snore, that’s even worse.
SID: Sorry.
NANCY: Yeah.
NO IMAGE
SOUND PIX/OUT
INTERVIEWER: Have you got any money?
NANCY: We have no idea how much, but we do have money. Pistols earned 60 pounds a week salary and that’s all we know, we know that there’s a certain amount of money from here and there. And I reckon we have a pretty good amount of money in the bank, but we don’t know. Malcolm does all that, and I’ve got no idea. That’s one of the things that Sid has got to have a conference with Malcolm during the week so that he can get a check book and have his account and fuck Malcolm.
INTERVIEWER: Hasn’t he got a check book?
NANCY: No, he gets 60 pounds a week on the spot, that’s it.
INTERVIEWER: Where did you get the money to buy this place, by the way?
NANCY: They bought it for us.
INTERVIEWER: So they own it, do they?
NANCY: See, it’s like, like if they say, like if you say to them: Oh, we want a car, oh we want a tape recorder, or we want this or we want that they’ll buy it for you but it’s just the money in the hand that you know.
SID: (unintelligible) They’ll bring it back.
INTERVIEWER: So listen, do they (or) do you own this flat?
NANCY: Yeah, it’s in Sophie’s name, but we—it’s our flat.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, but—
NANCY: It’s in her name because we couldn’t get it in our name obviously.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, but on the other hand, the--
NANCY: It was Sid’s money that paid for this flat.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
NANCY: It’s at least for seven years.
INTERVIEWER: Did you ask for them?
NANCY: Of course.
INTERVIEWER: Why did they say you aren’t getting there?
NANCY: They don’t say, they just…
SID: (unintelligible)
NANCY: We have no idea how much money we have, you know, we just, we get 60 pounds a week and that’s it.
INTERVIEWER: Seems to me you should be getting a bit more than that…
NANCY: Yeah, doesn’t it?
INTERVIEWER: Sums of money laying around you know.
NANCY: Or like he should have a check book and be able to handle his own money. You know, but like Malcolm is fucked and he doesn’t believe in that.
INTERVIEWER: Do you think Malcolm’s fucked, in fact?
NANCY: Yeah, I do.
INTERVIEWER: It does seem to be—
NANCY: I talk to people and they don’t believe what I’m saying. The things that Malcolm does, they don’t believe it. I mean, people in bands just people they don’t believe it, they just, they find it completely unbelievable and it’s totally true—Malcolm has pulled such stunts that you just don’t know.
INTERVIEWER: Like what?
NANCY: Oh what, what’s that Malcolm has pulled.
SID: Hmm, in the way of what?
NANCY: In the way of anything, in the way of being fucked up to you.
SID: Hmm, I remember one day, I went round to Paul and Steve’s house…
NANCY: You went round to Paul and Steve’s house
SID: Yeah, three heads popped out and (unintelligible) I kicked the door in.
NANCY: Ha! That was great. I remember that night. But that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about how he fucked you over. Oh! Like when we were staying ‘round, our friends of our’s house, right? Sid had hepatitis, and Malcolm was sure he was dope sick, right, on 25 pounds a week, he was sure of it. You know, I mean, like oh my God! It was just ridiculous and like, you know, Sid almost died! I mean it was three weeks (Nancy suits her head on Sid’s lap) until he was bright yellow. I mean, look at that poster up there, he’s yellow on the poster. You can see it, can’t you?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
NANCY: It was when he was bright yellow that they realized he had hepatitis and he wasn’t dope sick. I had been with hm for about two weeks at this point and like him, Malcolm like took Sid away too, and once he found out he was sick and said, you know, he like yelled to Linda the girl whose house it was: Get that (blank) outta that house. You know, where they were leaving you know, and took them await his mommy’s house and they were trying to keep us apart forever since, and like after he got out of the hospital, Sid- - - -him, Malcolm hadn’t heard hide nor hair from me for three months and we were on the Portobello Hotel, me, John and Sid were sitting in the lounge drinking when Malcolm came in, and the first thing he said at the time, they were having a lot of problems, like a lot. First thing he said to me, the first thing he said to anybody: “WHAT’S SHE DOING HERE.”
END TAPE 1
————
Thanks! I should tell the story of its creation! It was a collaboration with Bruce Carelton and Ken Weiner: So much fun.
They were so young!!! (And crazy!)
I met both of them, Nancy let us take a shower at her place...
Met Sid on the tour.