I always thought your departure had more to do with working for Al Goldstein (which you hated, and drove Ken Weiner away after he took over as SCREW Art Director--he had the same problems). From my perspective, you moved to Asia, Ken moved to Minnesota, Patricia Ragan moved, P. Bagge moved to Seattle... There was almost no one left from the STOP! Magazine crew left in NYC by the mid-1980s! It wasn't an easy time for me.
No, the first time we went there we saw The General and The Commandos perform, there was plenty of beer and fun. So we returned for the second party and that is when we kicked The Fraternity's ass, and they stopped harassing The General ever after. Very vivid memory for me, since I was bullied in high school and was so happy to stop them from harassing The General, who was a total weirdo and must have been bullied in high school for it. Patricia has the date, maybe we can sort out the history some day. I remember when we got The General into the Mudd Club and one of the young ladies we hung out with took his virginity... Anyway, that's why I know it had to be around 1979, when we were having problems with Spacely, and going out of business.
Yeah, thanks for the comment, Patrish. Eileen Polk definitely stole the guy's virginity! I tried to track down that photo of the three of you together with him at the Mudd Club but couldn't find it.And yeah, he could become annoying, but I didn't want to go negative... Well, no one is perfect, right?
Ha hah! Hey! I remember when Pete Bagge was doing The Gator on the floor to Iggy Pop's "I Got A Right" at the epic party when we threw the Christmas tree out of the window, when Peter ended up with a nail in his ass... Then Bagge did a comic strip about the guy years later.
The General was the only guy who escaped those football players at your bachelor party (when Bruce and I ended up in a holding cell together and missed most of your party!)... and managed to call the cops. Unfortunately, the police ended up talking with those Hofstra U. linebackers before Bruce and I could get our side of the story...
But this is why everyone left New York City shortly after... You, Bruce Carleton, Bagge, David Coulson, and everyone else. The crack cocaine, crime, homeless hordes etc. had just become too much. And let's not forget the stupid East Village "art scene." Wow, we were ever suckers for not embracing that shit!
The General and I were like the last two Noo Yawkers left back in the day. So we carried on! And kept doing cool stuff together (like the Cycle Sluts story, one of my all-time favorites).
My reason for leaving NYC didn’t have anything to do with any crack crimewave or homeless hordes or anything like that. When I left in '83 things were better off in that regard than when I got there in '75. I left because NYC just didn’t seem like it was as much fun as before, and it seemed like the feeling I had when I first got there that anything could happen was gone. Having visited three times since then (2000, 2012 and 2017) I conclude that I was tight. The buildings-on-fire apocalypse that the mid 70s felt like was gone, but so were the infinite possibilities. It seems impossible that a kid like me could move to the city now and find a place that I could somehow live at even while making next to nothing, find a way to go to clubs despite having no money, get to know the crazy variety of people that I did, and have the opportunities for expressing myself open up the way they did.
The confrontation with The General's bullies actually took place at the second party in Kearny.
Patricia Ragan reminded me that the first party actually took place in 1978, but I think it was still after we received the lawsuit notice, and after Tom Forcade committed suicide, so there was a feeling of gloom and doom at the magazine... I guess that both Spacely and Cindy would have been at the first party in 1978?
Fuck, who can remember details like this anymore...
I think you might be wrong about when the standoff happened. I remember it as the first party because that was the one that was more like a relatively normal high school party, and less like a stroll next to the abyss that the second “party” felt like. So when the jocks showed up it seemed normal. And when they took our beer, going after them seemed normal. And after the confrontation, all we did was go back and kind of hang out a little with the General's dad before booking back to the City, as opposed to demolishing the third floor.
I would like to add thoughts about two General moments from the earlies that stick in my head when thinking about him. The first takes place at that original Tropicana party in Kearny. Several jocks from the General's high school class showed up and drank his (and that of his cohorts such as the Mad Chef's) beer, but clearly didn’t fit in or look like they wanted too. After they left the General realized they’d taken most of the remaining beer with them. We all took off in pursuit and found them in a nearby park drinking their ill-gotten booty. I remember two lines of opposing forces facing off on the field of battle ready to charge. But... it didn’t feel right, I guess. Ultimately we somehow all decided that beating each other up wasn’t a good solution. I think maybe they gave back some of the beers and we all retired to our separate corners. The other hallmark moment was some months later when the General invited us back out to Kearney for what was to be its swan song. The family was being evicted, if I remember right, so Dad didn’t care what happened to the house before that came to pass. So there we were upstairs kicking holes in drywall and breaking things while the General's parents and maybe a sister or two sat downstairs quietly watching TV. It was a surreal moment that lives on in my memory, much like the General is a surreal person who lives there too.
The General was shockingly brilliant. While he annoyed the shit out of me mostly when we were in public, his uncoolness was what made him cooler than anyone else. Eileen Polk had a crush on him. For reals. They got their picture together in New York magazine in an article about the Mudd Club.
Memorable as well. I loved the guy and I'll miss him.
The General was an inspiration for me as well. Thanks for the story about the trip out to New Jersey. How do you remember this stuff? I was too drunk to recall anything.
I always thought your departure had more to do with working for Al Goldstein (which you hated, and drove Ken Weiner away after he took over as SCREW Art Director--he had the same problems). From my perspective, you moved to Asia, Ken moved to Minnesota, Patricia Ragan moved, P. Bagge moved to Seattle... There was almost no one left from the STOP! Magazine crew left in NYC by the mid-1980s! It wasn't an easy time for me.
No, the first time we went there we saw The General and The Commandos perform, there was plenty of beer and fun. So we returned for the second party and that is when we kicked The Fraternity's ass, and they stopped harassing The General ever after. Very vivid memory for me, since I was bullied in high school and was so happy to stop them from harassing The General, who was a total weirdo and must have been bullied in high school for it. Patricia has the date, maybe we can sort out the history some day. I remember when we got The General into the Mudd Club and one of the young ladies we hung out with took his virginity... Anyway, that's why I know it had to be around 1979, when we were having problems with Spacely, and going out of business.
Yeah, thanks for the comment, Patrish. Eileen Polk definitely stole the guy's virginity! I tried to track down that photo of the three of you together with him at the Mudd Club but couldn't find it.And yeah, he could become annoying, but I didn't want to go negative... Well, no one is perfect, right?
Ha hah! Hey! I remember when Pete Bagge was doing The Gator on the floor to Iggy Pop's "I Got A Right" at the epic party when we threw the Christmas tree out of the window, when Peter ended up with a nail in his ass... Then Bagge did a comic strip about the guy years later.
The General was the only guy who escaped those football players at your bachelor party (when Bruce and I ended up in a holding cell together and missed most of your party!)... and managed to call the cops. Unfortunately, the police ended up talking with those Hofstra U. linebackers before Bruce and I could get our side of the story...
But this is why everyone left New York City shortly after... You, Bruce Carleton, Bagge, David Coulson, and everyone else. The crack cocaine, crime, homeless hordes etc. had just become too much. And let's not forget the stupid East Village "art scene." Wow, we were ever suckers for not embracing that shit!
The General and I were like the last two Noo Yawkers left back in the day. So we carried on! And kept doing cool stuff together (like the Cycle Sluts story, one of my all-time favorites).
My reason for leaving NYC didn’t have anything to do with any crack crimewave or homeless hordes or anything like that. When I left in '83 things were better off in that regard than when I got there in '75. I left because NYC just didn’t seem like it was as much fun as before, and it seemed like the feeling I had when I first got there that anything could happen was gone. Having visited three times since then (2000, 2012 and 2017) I conclude that I was tight. The buildings-on-fire apocalypse that the mid 70s felt like was gone, but so were the infinite possibilities. It seems impossible that a kid like me could move to the city now and find a place that I could somehow live at even while making next to nothing, find a way to go to clubs despite having no money, get to know the crazy variety of people that I did, and have the opportunities for expressing myself open up the way they did.
The confrontation with The General's bullies actually took place at the second party in Kearny.
Patricia Ragan reminded me that the first party actually took place in 1978, but I think it was still after we received the lawsuit notice, and after Tom Forcade committed suicide, so there was a feeling of gloom and doom at the magazine... I guess that both Spacely and Cindy would have been at the first party in 1978?
Fuck, who can remember details like this anymore...
But wow, was that Big Fun or what!
I think you might be wrong about when the standoff happened. I remember it as the first party because that was the one that was more like a relatively normal high school party, and less like a stroll next to the abyss that the second “party” felt like. So when the jocks showed up it seemed normal. And when they took our beer, going after them seemed normal. And after the confrontation, all we did was go back and kind of hang out a little with the General's dad before booking back to the City, as opposed to demolishing the third floor.
I would like to add thoughts about two General moments from the earlies that stick in my head when thinking about him. The first takes place at that original Tropicana party in Kearny. Several jocks from the General's high school class showed up and drank his (and that of his cohorts such as the Mad Chef's) beer, but clearly didn’t fit in or look like they wanted too. After they left the General realized they’d taken most of the remaining beer with them. We all took off in pursuit and found them in a nearby park drinking their ill-gotten booty. I remember two lines of opposing forces facing off on the field of battle ready to charge. But... it didn’t feel right, I guess. Ultimately we somehow all decided that beating each other up wasn’t a good solution. I think maybe they gave back some of the beers and we all retired to our separate corners. The other hallmark moment was some months later when the General invited us back out to Kearney for what was to be its swan song. The family was being evicted, if I remember right, so Dad didn’t care what happened to the house before that came to pass. So there we were upstairs kicking holes in drywall and breaking things while the General's parents and maybe a sister or two sat downstairs quietly watching TV. It was a surreal moment that lives on in my memory, much like the General is a surreal person who lives there too.
The General was shockingly brilliant. While he annoyed the shit out of me mostly when we were in public, his uncoolness was what made him cooler than anyone else. Eileen Polk had a crush on him. For reals. They got their picture together in New York magazine in an article about the Mudd Club.
Memorable as well. I loved the guy and I'll miss him.
The General was an inspiration for me as well. Thanks for the story about the trip out to New Jersey. How do you remember this stuff? I was too drunk to recall anything.